Sober Living for the Revolution

Hardcore Punk, Straight Edge, and Radical Politics

By Gabriel Kuhn

PM Press

Copyright © 2010 PM Press
All rights reserved.
ISBN: 978-1-60486-051-1
CHAPTER 1

Bands

• Minor Threat

Interview with Ian MacKaye

• ManLiftingBanner

Interview with Michiel Bakker, Olav van den Berg, and Paul van den Berg

• Refused

Interview with Dennis Lyxzén The Shape of Punk to Come

• Point of No Return

Bending to Stay Straight Interview with Frederico Freitas

• New Winds

Interview with Bruno "Break" Teixeira

Minor Threat

Interview with Ian MacKaye

Ian MacKaye was a founding member of the early 1980s Washington, DC, punk hardcore bands Teen Idles (1979/80) and Minor Threat (1980-83). He was one of the most important influences on the development of the US hardcore punk underground, and — albeit unwillingly — the instigator of the worldwide straight edge movement. The Minor Threat songs "Straight Edge," "In My Eyes," and "Out Of Step" remain the most referenced songs in straight edge communities. Ian continued his musical career with the bands Embrace (1985/86), Fugazi (1987 to present), and The Evens (2001 to present). He co-founded Dischord Records in 1980 and still runs the label out of "Dischord House" in Washington, DC.

Discography:

• Minor Threat, 1981, Dischord Records (EP)

• In My Eyes, 1981, Dischord Records (EP)

• Out of Step, 1983, Dischord Records

• Salad Days, 1985, Dischord Records (EP)

• Live, 1988, Dischord Records (DVD)

• Complete Discography, 1989, Dischord Records

• First Demo Tape, 2001, Dischord Records

Since you asked me about this the last time we spoke: I checked on how many white guys in their thirties and forties we have in the book. It's about twelve out of twenty.

That's not so bad. I mean, it's not that you are doing anything wrong. It's just that there exists a certain kind of people who put a claim on history; and this seems to be a particularly acute pathology amongst aging white dudes. It's like history should somehow be their province. I find this really disturbing. Mostly because I'm a white guy and I'm forty-six and a lot of people ask me about history, and I just don't want to be another one of them dudes, 'cause I don't claim history. That's also why I don't read a lot of punk histories, because, having been there, I started to understand how people who write histories — or about histories — ultimately tend to shape them into manageable narratives, and in doing so they pervert or distort the reality. And since I was there, it'd be difficult for me to read these books without going, "That just did not happen that way!"

Well, this book doesn't focus so much on history, I suppose. I think it's mostly about gathering people's thoughts on all sorts of issues. I mean, sure, I'll ask people about history too, and I'll probably ask you a couple of questions about DC in the 80s, but I mean, you can dodge those if you don't want to talk about it ... (Image 1.1)

Oh, I don't mind talking about it. It's just that I think of it more in terms of being somebody who's experienced something and is willing to share these experiences. The problem is that within our culture — and when I say our culture, I specifically mean American culture, but I think it extends to Western culture in general — there is a celebrity factor that makes people who are in the public eye appear to be all-important as opposed to those who just do their work and stay on point. There is the classic moment when people say, "Yes, and then punk, or hardcore, or straight edge, or whatever, died." But it always died when they left the picture or when their band split up. It seems that they are talking about an energy that was contained within them — whereas I see an energy that is a constant ever-flowing river. And this river has always been there, and it always will be there. And what this river ultimately stands for is the free space in which unconventional, unorthodox, contesting, and radical ideas can be presented.

When I first approached you concerning this project I sent an email saying that I wanted to talk about the "political dimensions of straight edge." You said that this set off alarm bells for you. Why was that?

I mainly said that because I was born and raised in Washington, DC, and people obviously associate me with the town and its politics. When you wrote that, I felt that you were perhaps trying to appeal to what you might have thought was my political leaning — like you would say, "Look I don't want to ask you about straight edge, I want to know more about the political stuff because you are from Washington, DC." And so I was like, whoa, I don't know what the political dimension would be in that case? I think a lot of people assume that because I live in Washington I'm really caught up in the kind of politicking in a way, because the White House is here, or the Congress.

However, what I really learned from living in a city in which you have an industry like the government was that the way to navigate these institutions is to never engage with them, and to work on the margins instead; to always work around them. There was a saying amongst the young punks here about how if you went to public schools in Washington, DC, you learned two basic things: one, how to wait in line; and two, never ask for permission because the answer is always no. So the thing to do was: just do it, don't ask for permission! At some point the authorities would come along and say, "You can't do that!" but then you just said, "Oh, I didn't know." If you had asked them, they would have just said no right away. Mainly because of the bureaucracy and the sludge of the administration. They just didn't want to do any extra work.

This played a really big part in the development of the punk scene: we didn't ask, we didn't get permission, we didn't get licenses, we didn't get copyrights, we didn't get trademarks, we didn't fill out any forms, we didn't get lawyers ... We just rented rooms and put on shows, and we never formalized anything with the government whatsoever. We just put on these shows that were completely illegal, but nobody cared, because, essentially, you didn't give them the opportunity to care.

But taking that initiative without asking for permission is a political statement, right?

There is no doubt about that. See, email is a very stupid form of communication and I balked when the word "political" appeared. I don't know you, I'm not sitting with you, I can't understand you, I don't hear the tone of what you are saying. The word "political" is just a difficult word. Many people ask me whether Fugazi is a political band, or Minor Threat ... Well, of course! Every band is political. Everything is political. Every action is political. But I think there are plenty of people who consider themselves political activists and who do not believe that these bands are political because they don't do this or they don't do that; like, they don't go to this particular protest, or they don't sign this particular petition, or on their liner notes they don't list this particular organization.

It just depends on what one's relationship with the word "politics" is. I know that in this country — at least during the last decade, but I would say probably during the last twenty or...